8: How is Today’s Technology Impacting Your Child’s Social Development with Developmental Psychologist Dr. Valerie Hill
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We cover so many important topics that are top of mind for parents and educators these days including…
At what age is it ok for my child to have a smartphone?
How about access to social media?
Is the structure we have placed in our kids’ lives impacting their creativity in a negative way?
How far should I go in monitoring my kids' phones?
How to help a shy child develop friendships.
Dr. Valerie Hill is a Developmental Psychologist who enjoys teaching psychology courses and workshops that explore various aspects of human development (e.g. Adolescence, Parenting, Friendships, Alzheimer’s Disease). She is a Professor and the Undergraduate Program Director in the Psychology Department at Lewis University and author of the books, Inside Diseases and Disorders: What You Need to Know about Alzheimer’s Disease and Hanging Out: The Psychology of Socializing.
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Episode Transcript
Tom & Jeannie: [00:00:00] So our question of the month was actually comes from one of the recent classes that I taught. I was teaching a bunch of teachers and social workers and school support staff, and there was a pretty lively debate over, , whether or not today's technology is either helpful or harmful to, , Our student social development, you know, the kids social development in general.
So I thought , that'd be a great question to cover in this podcast and bring an expert in. , and today's guest was actually the very first recommendation I got for the podcast. , so I've been working with Dr. Hannah Klein, , from Lewis University. She had listened to podcasts and she said, she liked it. And I said, do you know anybody? And she said, yes. And I'll actually read the quote that she sent me. I pulled up the email. She said, we have a professor here at Lewis, Valerie Hill, who teaches all of our childhood development, psychology classes.
Plus she's an incredible mom herself. And she's also a licensed parent coach. Wow. Okay. Perfect. But then I heard the name Valerie Hill and I'm like, could that be the Valerie Hill that was in many [00:01:00] of my homecoming and prom groups in high school? So of course, then of course I go directly to the Lewis university site.
And sure enough, who is it? But it's Valerie Hill and it is the Valerie Hill from high school who, if there's a podcast on how not to age in 30 years, she should be on that because there was no question she looked exactly the same as she did 30 years ago. , so this is exciting. So I was excited to reach out to her.
Dr. Valerie Hill is a developmental psychologist who enjoys teaching psychology courses and workshops that explore various aspects of human development, adolescence, parenting, friendship, Alzheimer's disease.
She is a professor and the undergraduate program director in the psychology department at Lewis university and the author of the books. Inside diseases and disorders, what you need to know about Alzheimer's disease. And the one that makes for the perfect guest for our question this month, which is right here, hanging out the psychology of socializing.
So [00:02:00] Valerie, it is so good to see you again. Thank you so much for being here.
Dr. Valerie Hill: Thank you for having me. Yeah,
Tom & Jeannie: you, you would go in, what do you think on that? Is it, is technology good or bad for our, our kids'? Socialization.
Dr. Valerie Hill: know, it's a really good question. With psychology, I actually think it's both. . I know, some students, don't like hearing, sometimes like it depends , but that's, you know, that's really what it is with technology. And, , I want to clarify, I think when we think of technology nowadays, I think most people think of phones and, social media and whatnot.
But technology in general is just, any sort of way that, , makes our life, different in some sort of respect. So let me give you an example, like the car. I mean, think about it before we had cars or before we had washing machines, I think each generation has had Some sort of technology, that is impacted it in some sort of way. I think one of the ways that technology nowadays would happen would be the smartphone, right? And, I [00:03:00] think One way that it could be helpful is, you know, it allows us to connect to people that maybe we wouldn't be able to connect to or maybe maintain a connection that we wouldn't normally maintain.
And I'll give you an example, when I was younger. I had a friend in second grade and, she actually left school and she was one of my best friends and so we began writing letters to each other, and then over time what happened, the letters became less frequent and then the letters stopped and, really lost that connection to that friend.
But my daughter, who's in seventh grade had one of her really good friends move to the Philippines recently. And they are able to stay connected. There's a, I think, 13 or 14 hour time difference and they can instant message. They can, see each other through, whatever platform that they have.
. So I think that way it can be very helpful for us to either develop or, maintain connections with others.
It might [00:04:00] also let us take risks that we normally wouldn't take, maybe you can take a risk in a video game or an app that maybe you wouldn't take in real life. So, I think those are, two just, helpful ways. I think potentially harmful, ways is that we use it sometimes to occupy children.
It's time or entertain them. As we do adult things, let's just say, but think about it back in the day as Children. We did those things with adults. We went to the grocery store and we didn't have something in front of our face
and so one of those things when you're talking about social development, I really think we're kind of losing some of those basic developmental, , I don't want to call milestones, but, , aspects of development that used to really help us. I mean, I'll give you an example. We were at a restaurant you know, probably a year ago and There was a big group of individuals and everybody was on their phones.
Tom & Jeannie: yeah,
Dr. Valerie Hill: [00:05:00] You know, adults, children, none of them were interacting with each other. And so it's kind of like, how do you learn how to be out socially at a restaurant or some other things if you're not having to do that at a young age? Or even in the grocery store, language is very important. Have them help you. You have a list, have them find things in the grocery store for you, help you.
Yeah, it's going to take a little longer to get through the grocery store, but those are some aspects. that are really important for children to develop language, , conversation, they see how you interact with others, you know, maybe at, you know, the bakery or the meat counter or whatnot. And they're picking up those kind of social interactions and they're learning from you.
So I think, that would be a potential harm in that I think sometimes we're losing some of the social encounters that we may be experienced when we were kids that kids don't. You know, nowadays, as much.
Tom & Jeannie: Yeah. I was going to say, that's something that I didn't even think about is those real life, normal experiences of [00:06:00] just basic interactions, kids are missing them now because they're busy watching YouTube, you know, on their
Dr. Valerie Hill: Right.
Tom & Jeannie: And instead of, trying to keep them quiet, you really want them more to be interacting.
Dr. Valerie Hill: And I mean, it's hard. I know, you know, you are, our lives are busy. You want to get in and get out and, you know, do everything, but, , it could, it could be fun too, you know, to be able to, to have them, do that with you. And, , one of the things that I, I don't know if you guys know Jean Twanga's Twangi's research.
Do you know her research? Okay. So she has really done a lot of work on generational differences. And how technology has shaped development . And you know, everybody, when we think of kids and teens, everybody kind of highlights COVID, right?
You know, with social development, COVID. But actually what the research is showing is that in about 2012, when everybody had a. So smartphones kind of were introduced, you know, in roughly 2007 ish, you know, but in 2012, most people [00:07:00] had one. And what we're really finding from research, regarding children and more so adolescence, is that Because of that, they're doing a lot less things that you and I did.
Like, for example, getting a driver's license. I mean, I can remember, I mean, how about you guys? We counted the days who got their driver's license first, who could pick us up now? It's like, nah, you know, not, not a lot of them have a, you know, driver's license to do that, going out on dates, a lot less go out on dates than, you know, you used to and then going out without parents.
has actually declined. You know, we used to go out without our parents a lot. So think about those three things that we all did. that, you know, Children and teens aren't really doing as much and think about , you're not really gaining that independence or social interaction with your peers, which is a different social interaction than with adults, right?
. And I think it really highlights again, this idea of technology and, you know, maybe some of the potential [00:08:00] impacts that it, that it can have.
Tom & Jeannie: In that conversation that we were having in that, that class, it did talk a lot about, so, you know, social media in general and stuff like that. Do you have any recommendations, advice, any of the research out there about. Is social media okay? Because you know, I think about my son. So when, when he was in grade school, he went about a month without a phone because he broke his phone.
We're like, we're not getting to you until this date and everything. But he basically, then it was in the summer. He went a month without like, because it was all through, I forgot what at that time it might've been Snapchat or something like that. That's how they communicated.
Dr. Valerie Hill: I know.
Tom & Jeannie: didn't know when people were going out or anything.
So we were kind of in this pickle where like, can't use social media. It's not good. But then, He didn't have any social interaction because he didn't have it.
Dr. Valerie Hill: I know.
Tom & Jeannie: any suggestions on that
Dr. Valerie Hill: Yeah. So, I mean, I think, the research shows that there's like this new push, I don't know if you've ever heard of wait till eight. So it's this movement of wait till eighth grade in order for, kids to get a phone and more importantly to start using it in a way like social [00:09:00] media or something like that.
You need buy in from the class or the school because if your kid's the only one waiting, then, you know everybody else is doing that. So there's kind of that push but the research does show that, you know social media can have a negative impact, especially, , earlier that they, encounter it.
My daughter's in seventh grade. She, she does not have a phone yet. We're, we're trying to hold off, but she's one of the few that don't. Okay. They do have these new phones, like the gab phone, , where it doesn't have any social media and it doesn't have internet.
But. You know, it's, it's a difficult situation, , I think as a parent, you need to decide. You know where you lie in that and every parent's different. I'm not here to say, this is good or This is bad, but I I will tell you that the longer you can wait the research shows for development the better that it is because , they start making those comparisons we know that social media Everybody's posting their best self or, you know, filtering this or doing that.
And, you know, adolescents [00:10:00] make comparisons all of the time. That is the time of age where they're making comparisons. They're very egocentric. So they, , think everybody is, , sees the world that they do. They compare themselves. They think everybody's looking at them when nobody really cares, you know, right?
And then also monitor it, I mean, you know, your kid and what your kid's going to want to do or not do.
Some parents just have no idea, , what, you know, their kids are doing online and, and whatnot. So, I'm in that camp of the wait till that. I really encourage, you actual interaction, is really good for development. So the more you can do that, , like, Hey, let's make a play date or, you know, let's, let's do that.
Dr. Valerie Hill: Or let's hang out at, you know, this place, you know, at the Starbucks or wherever people are going nowadays,
Tom & Jeannie: the play date idea reminds me of something that , you talked about a little bit in the book about structured versus unstructured play. And I remember, you know, when we were, when I was growing up, when we were growing up, it was a lot more unstructured play.
It was, Hey, go out, you know, we played baseball, we played [00:11:00] ditch. Soon as the streetlights came on, that's when we were home. But I mean and I'm guilty of it with my kids it was it's very very structured it's like, you know dance or you know baseball practice or whatever it was it was very very structured, so What what do you think about that?
Is, is unstructured structured? What's better? What's worse again? Is it both?
Dr. Valerie Hill: Yeah. Yeah. So I do think we definitely have more structured play. The current research shows, actually, we really want to have unstructured play for, for kids and for, for teens. And I think we never thought about it before. I think sometimes people think play is the answer when you have nothing else to do.
It's like, oh, you know, we're, we, we did these five things, now go play because we don't have anything to do. But if you think of play as an important part of development, I think then you kind of look at it in a different light of something that we want to make sure we make time for. And we know that unstructured time or player, whatever people want to call it.
Social interaction is very important. It helps them [00:12:00] build, you know, social skills. It actually is a buffer against, negative stressors. . It improves our executive functioning, which is like our ability to learn and organize and it also, you know, allows us to have to regulate our, self and emotions.
Think about it. When you're with a peer and it's unstructured and you, you're playing a game or you make something up, you know, if somebody cuts in front or somebody doesn't take a turn, they're going to put you in your place, you know, you know, to be able to, so you're learning like what's acceptable and what's unacceptable.
Your parent or your teacher could tell you all day long what's unacceptable or acceptable. But until you actually are in that situation, you're, you know, you're really learning from that. Kids will be like, I'm bored. You know, what do you do? And I think that's okay. Like, you know, parents are quick to jump in and go, we'll do this. Or what about this? Or we have this today. And I think to be honest, Just let them figure it out. Like, take a step back. I'll give you an [00:13:00] example in class.
So when, when people are new professors, silence is like deadly in a
Tom & Jeannie: sure.
Dr. Valerie Hill: right? You know, you ask a question and nobody answers. And so they're quick to Give an answer or re ask or, you know, do something and I don't mind silence like, you know, so I'll be sitting there and, ask something and if they don't know, I'm giving them time to think, giving them time.
If it's an unfamiliar subject, we might need a little bit more time. So for kids, think about how, they're not as fast processors as we are. So we ask them a question, we want the answer right away, but give them time to think about the answer.
So same thing with play. If they're bored, give them time to, Think about what they can do. And for younger kids, you might want to have a room or a variety of things for them to play with for unstructured social interactions.
They find the seat cushions and they'll make a fort or whatever it is. I know it's, you know, uncomfortable for a lot of parents, but I think if we could just. You know, give them this time and wait a [00:14:00] little bit to see what they come up with. I think that's very helpful for children because we want them to do that.
We want them to develop those skills to be able to Utilize their time and not have somebody always tell them what they should be doing with their time.
. I remember when when my kids were littler, Linda would go away, she would do a girl's weekend , so I would wait till this weekend because I didn't want her to go through this torture, but it was a electronics detox weekend. So when Elizabeth was young, I used to unplug the TV and I'm like, Oh, the TV's not working.
Tom & Jeannie: And by the time she was like five, she was like, Oh dad, look here, the plug. We just need to plug this back in.
Dr. Valerie Hill: right, right. Exactly.
Tom & Jeannie: but, but as it got older too, again, it was all right. No phones for the whole weekend. And the first like two to three hours, it was miserable and complaining and everything like that.
But then we just got creative. I remember one time we were taking, we basically were taking marshmallows and throwing them. One person was upstairs and we were throwing marshmallows trying to get them in each other's mouths and stuff. And you come up with just these really creative stuff.
Dr. Valerie Hill: [00:15:00] Right. And you know what? Like daydreaming and thinking about things actually promotes creativity and creativity. Geez Louise, if we didn't have creativity, we wouldn't have half of the technology and innovations that we have. So I know it's uncomfortable sometimes for some parents or we always want something to do, but I think it's a good thing to just kind of let it.
You know, let them try to figure it out
Tom & Jeannie: I wanted to jump back to something. You mentioned monitoring. So, you know, monitoring your kids phones and things like that. And this is what I've had debates with other parents on this. How much is too much? Because, you know, I know some parents who like find my friends and, you know, The kids are in college now and they're like checking where they, you know, how much is too much.
So you're saying that my mom should not have me on Find My Friends. Actually, I'm worried about you having mom and watching where mom is. Oh, right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I forgot. I put that on her phone. That's how she does it.
Dr. Valerie Hill: on the age I will tell you, I think you can monitor too much, I do think, because, you want to set up trust and rapport, with your [00:16:00] kids, even early on, Even when they're little, you want to, establish a, a trust that, , knowing that you can go in and do stuff, but you're not going to unless you feel like that there's something they need to do.
I think this comes back to nowadays parents the way that they parent when we were, let's say, 20 And people are 20 now they seem so much younger at 20 than maybe what we when we did right The way that you know, they're parenting is that there's this kind of Slow development in the sense it's like, you know, I hear all the time.
Well, they're only 18 You know, they're only 18. I'm like gee I was 18 when I went to college too And you know, so I mean it's it's kind of like that So I think there's more monitoring because of that then there's that potential lack of independence and making decisions.
And, , that's something that can, , be detrimental if you can't make a decision on your own. , how are you going to do that when you, you know, have your own kids? You want to know that your kids are safer or whatnot. But I think on some level, [00:17:00] you have to just also Trust and trust your your kids. You know even said to my daughter who's 12 and even when she was 10, she was doing something I said, I don't look at your iPad.
Like I you know, I said I could because I have your You know, password or whatever, but I don't and I said, so, you know, I'm trusting you that you are not doing anything that, , I wouldn't want you to do and I told her once you lose trust, it's really hard to earn it back.
So, you know, I want to give the trust, but you know, you have to realize that we need to give that to them. I think parents always want that. Their kids trust like, Oh, you have to trust me. It's like, but we kind of have to trust them too. So you know, and making mistakes, , is part of life. And to be honest, sometimes that's the best way we learn.
We learn more, I believe from our mistakes than we do from our successes, to be honest, you know? So, yeah.
Tom & Jeannie: another question I get often is especially today's, it seems like, , kids are kind of on their phone. So that's like safety to them. So really shy kids it can be hard for them to make [00:18:00] friends because everybody's got that, that protection of that phone or that iPad or whatever it is.
For any parents out there, even, you know, teachers who might be working with shy kids, any, any recommendations you have for them on how to do that. They can kind of build social interaction and make friends,
Dr. Valerie Hill: one thing I want to point out is you know, most people feel shy sometimes. So, I think, when shyness is and to be honest, in our culture As you get older, shyness is seen as a negative quality.
But not all cultures view shyness in that manner. So in some cultures, shyness is seen as a very valuable trait or characteristic or, you know, part of that. So I just, you know, want to, want to highlight that. But one of the things that I think, that is really important is be a good role model yourself there's a famous psychologist, most everybody knows Psychologists know is Albert Bandura the psychologist before him always said, in order to learn we need consequences, we need reinforcement, we need punishment,
and he's like I kind of think, you know, we can just learn by simply watching others. And he's done, he did a lot of research and studies and [00:19:00] the answer is yes. We can learn by watching others. We learn what to do, and we can learn what not to do. You know, and you know the old adage, do what I say, not what I do.
They're doing what you're doing, usually. So, I think first and foremost, be a good role model yourself. You know, when you interact with someone, Somebody, you know, you have confident social behavior. Your kids are going to see confident social behavior, putting others at ease. Even if it's uncomfortable for you. . And then the other thing I think is that a lot of times parents will kind of push them into stuff.
I think, you know, what you need to do maybe is kind of Find things that they enjoy or that they're interested in. They're more likely to reach out and do something versus they've never done this before you put them in a gymnastics class They have no idea what they're doing and you know, go make friends.
It's like, ah, you know and then I think you should be okay with, very small steps, progress, even if they just said hello to somebody and they normally don't do that.
That's a win in my [00:20:00] book. Or maybe they joined a game for just a little bit of time and then they, you know, got out of it. That's learning and that's developing skills. And then just reinforce, them, give them praise when they, when they do something that, you deem that would be good.
Like, One of the things that I, I usually stress to is talk about behaviors rather than characteristics.
So for example, you know, you'll have parents, this is my messy kid, or this is my, you know, whatever kid. And then they see that as a characteristic versus a behavior. Or even a good one like this is my smart kid, right? Well, what if they get a bad grade on a test? Or do they think they're smart anymore? So I think, you know, highlighting behaviors.
If they do well on a test. Wow, you did so well in the test because you studied really hard, . So with shyness, sometimes parents like this is my shy kid. And, , I'm thinking that, well, they're gonna live up to that expectation then, right? You know, so, oh, I'm shy. I don't need to do this or that.
So I think if we can focus on [00:21:00] behaviors, that's really helpful for kids and developing, especially Children who might be a little bit more shy than others are less willing or slow to warm up in certain groups.
, it's just the way you change your wording really matters so when I, you know, teach with my students, we we work on that. Just these kind of little changes that you can make can really be beneficial for for kids. The other thing is, I think. focusing on what we want to happen versus what we don't want to happen.
So let me give you an example. The weather was really bad driving to work today. So instead of saying, I don't want to get in an accident. I don't want to get in an accident. Say I would like to get to work safely. I'd like to get to work safely I'd like to get to work safely.
So, you know kind of reiterating what you want to happen especially that are good things versus you don't want bad things to happen because when we Say things and focus on even though you don't want it to happen You're focusing on accident or you're focusing on failing a test or not passing or whatever.
So I [00:22:00] think making, again, that small change is really helpful. So when you're working with kids who, might be slow to warm up in a social situation or maybe with technology or whatever it is , if we can focus on the positive and what we want to see versus what we don't want to see, can be helpful as well.
Tom & Jeannie: So we're going to hop into our final three questions. There are three questions that we ask every wonderful person that's on the show. So question number one, a certain level of stress and anxiety is inevitable. And in many cases, you know, it's a good thing if we want to achieve our potential.
So what is something that causes you stress or maybe used to cause you a lot of stress and how do you work through it?
Dr. Valerie Hill: To be honest, speaking in front of people is something that, , I'm not so comfortable with. ,
so in the fall, I got asked to say the prayer for the graduates at graduation here at at Lewis University. And it's an honor to be asked to do that. So while I was honored, I was [00:23:00] also honored know, a little fearful of that because you have to sit on the stage with the platform party and, you know, you're there the whole time . And so the way that I work through it is.
You know, some simple things. I take deep breaths. I, I know that sounds like it doesn't matter, but it really does. That physiologically changes your state, gets you to physiologically calm down. I do do positive self talk. So, , again, when I talked about that positive psychology, I can do this, I want to do really well versus I'm going to blow it,
and then I try to just be as prepared as possible. .
Tom & Jeannie: Okay, so question number two. We like to remind kids that failure is a necessary part of life.
You've already touched on this and it's something that is. At almost 38 years old, I remind myself, Jeannie, it's okay to fail. It's okay to fail. And even people as highly accomplished as yourself, you've had failures that you've probably had to work through. So can you share with us a failure that you've had in life and what it taught you, or maybe what good came from it?
Dr. Valerie Hill: So I think one of the things just talk about [00:24:00] academically I think comes to mind is Tom, you know, we went to a big university, right? And that was a, that was a change, you know. And in one of my courses I took, I'll never forget. I took a biology course.
And there was about 500 students in class. And I remember I got my first exam back and it was like a D or an F, and I'd never gotten, that before. And I was kind of shocked, and I was worried that, oh my, am I going to be able to pass the class?
You know, what's going on? And, you know, this is back in the day, there was no cell phones, there was no email to email. You had to go to the instructor during office hours . And so I did, you know and I went to the office hours and I, , asked the instructor , what can I do
and, , the instructor gave me helpful feedback. And I utilized that feedback And I ended up, , earning an A in the class, which, , you think, how can you go from, that to that? Well, again, I, I learned that, , reaching out for help, , to somebody who can help you is very [00:25:00] important.
And also that, while, In some respects, some things might seem dire at the time. You can recover from it and sometimes you can recover very well from that.
Tom & Jeannie: And especially now you being a professor. That's such a relevant story. I'm sure you've had kids that have been like, how did I get a D in this? You know? And you're like, I've been there. I've been there. And it's all good. Look where I am. It's all
Dr. Valerie Hill: Exactly. Exactly. And I think, having those There's things in class that are allowing for that, is really important for students, knowing that if you, , don't do well in this one thing, it's not gonna, totally negatively impact your overall grade in the course.
later on and I think developing that is really helpful for them.
Tom & Jeannie: Awesome. All right. So our last question, let's say a parent is tucking in their kid at night or a teacher or a coach has a couple minutes, , left in their class or practice and they want to share a quick clip from this podcast with their kids.
What is the main lesson that you want to leave with us with what they could play for their kids? What is that main lesson?
The main lesson would [00:26:00] be, twofold you know, Be a good role model for your kid you know, it's, it's, Nobody's perfect. So, you know, I think we're all doing the best that we can. and allow them unstructured time. It allows them then to develop those skills on their own. So I think if you can take one or two things and maybe make small changes, it would really be helpful.
Tom & Jeannie: Yeah, small changes go a long way,
Dr. Valerie Hill: Yeah. Yeah.
Tom & Jeannie: awesome. Oh, Valerie, this was so great! Valerie, thank you so much for being here. That was so fantastic. We really, really appreciate your time. And I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go look for those pictures. We can find some prom and homecoming pictures. I'm gonna find them, I'm gonna email them to you.
Dr. Valerie Hill: exactly. I shudder to think what we were wearing, but that's
Tom & Jeannie: I know, yeah.
Dr. Valerie Hill: This was great. It was so great to see you both. Thank you for having me.